From Excel Expert to Microsoft MVP: Empowering Millions with Data, Dashboards & AI with Karen Abecia [Microsoft MVP]

Yeah, welcome, Arvi and hello and welcome back to the MC65FM podcast. Today's guest has decated more than two decades to helping people unlock the power of Microsoft Excel and data. She is a Microsoft MVP professor, entrepreneur, international speaker in one of the world's most recognizable Excel educators. Her educational content reached hundreds of thousand of professionals through YouTube linked in Instagram where she teaches Excel, dashboards, AI and practical approach approach away. She trained more than 15,000 students, built a YouTube community over 250,000 subscribers and is so passionate about Excel that she has even two Excel tattoos. Karen, it's fantastic to have you here on the show. Welcome to the MC65FM podcast. Thanks for the invitation. I'm so happy to be here and I hope that we have a super good moment here. Yeah, for people, I don't know, you are really famous, but for people who may not know you yet, who is Karen? For the for the work, I'm Excel lover. Since my 19 years old, now I have 42. I have two kids. For me, they are always kids, but they are adults. I'm a karaoke singer, lover, super karaoke, I'm so, so karaoke lover. About Excel, about people, I'm doing this job to help people in the internet and out the internet since my 19 and I'm so happy to be, to can help people with my work. It's really fantastic, Vista Karoche, I don't know what on my research. So in Berlin, in Germany, Berlin, there is Excel karaoke. You will be there. But do you remember the first moment, Excel, really fascinating you? I cannot remember the first moment that fascinates me, but I remember when I fascinate the other people in my work with my kind of do my spreadsheets, and I didn't know why they are talking about I was making a good job, but they always talk about it's different. Why you make different spreadsheets? And in this moment, I start to think, everybody have to know, everybody deserves to know, how can receive this kind of congrats about this job, it's so good to fill it, you know, not about numbers, but about the presentation, how can show the numbers? The colors, the presentation, I'm a so visual person, you know? Yeah, I'm sorry, but I have to ask, tell us a little bit the stories behind your exalt tattoos. About the tattoos? Yeah. I was talking with another friend that they they has a tattoo about Excel, and I'm not a super lover, tattoos, but Excel changed my life, changed my life, like in in my job and with my family and especially with my kids. So my first tattoo was about my kids, the initial of the name of my kids, because I think that tattoo is a thing that you'll do in your body to remember good things forever. I will never have nobody have X dollar, X sun. So I did a tattoo in my neck about my kids. And after this, when I start to grow up in internet with Excel, Excel gives me a lot of powers, powers to and power other people, power to say to my kids, you can do work receive money and be happy with this. So Excel for me is not just an icon or a nap, it's about hour. And if I if I cannot work with Excel today in thousand now today, it it worth it. So Excel changed my life. And I thought about putting my body to remember what what kind of crazy Excel change, my family, my life, the way of the people respect me. And especially them, I was talking about empowering other person and especially women's in their jobs with different steps and not hard steps, difficult steps, not not others, just tricks and think about be different. And I decided for this, put a tattoo in my, my arm. Yeah, you say you have two kids, did you teach your kids also in Excel? They they work with me for my doctor work at Sains three years and my son two years with me, not especially with Excel, but editing videos and doing logistic things to to give to my students. But they have to everybody that come to join my team have to study a little Excel, a minimum, you know what we are talking about, you know, so they they can use Excel, not not hard skills, my son, my, my son is, I don't know how can I say advertising is about advertising, he works. And my doctor works with architecture, nothing about Excel, what Excel, health, it's everywhere. What will you say when the when your kids say, okay, I will also want to extort the two. About that at all. Oh, they know, I think I think no, I have certain about this. My family have so proud of me and they support me in every decision, each the the small decisions like this. And they know how it it's important to me, especially because I don't have college, I started my in my normal school, I don't have a, how can I say it after you school? Or high school? Yeah, I did it, I don't make a formation, I didn't. So for this, I was always talking with my kids, I have to study more everyday, more than normal persons because I have to run to know about the, the new things, the new stuff that Excel and now it's not about Excel, it's about a year analysis and big data. So they have proud, proud about this and I have sure that it's, it's, it's help, it helped my kids to know that you have to study every day, but you can't choose what you want to study, you don't have to, I don't have to choose to excel, I love it. And I think that everybody deserves it, choose, choose what you want to do for your life. I think wow, when you look at Ed Linkton or some other social media channels, every few days someone says Excel is dead. Why are they wrong? About the AI? I think it's before AI, it's, it's like, I feel like 20 years also, Excel is dead, Excel is dead. So, I think that is the, the same subject about every priest is, every priest in the church, it's, they are bad guys or every kid have trouble. Everybody talk a lot, but the people don't leave it. I'm, I don't go to the church, but in, in the church, in or out, everybody have good things and bad things. And if you are inside for this example, inside the church, you can talk about it. But if you just see the news on the, the TV shows and advertising, you cannot talk about it. For me, it's the same with Excel. When somebody talks Excel, we're gonna die or for AI or for every stuff. It's about persons that don't know what they are talking about. So, I don't care about it. I just heard and say, "Oh, okay, if you need me, I'm here." You, you have to teach so many people what will you say to them when they ask you what separates a good dashboard from a bad one? Especially now with AI, I always talking about it's not basic or advanced work because when I started, my work was, "Let's go today with basic and basic Excel." But what it means, what it really means. For me, basic is something for you, it's other thing and advanced said it's the same. So, when I started to make dashboards, I was in a barbecue party and somebody said, "Ah, do you know? Cutting work with dashboards." And a lot of people always were saying, "Me too." And I left, I was, "Mil, okay, give me some beer." You know, because they are not prepared for listening about this and about your question when I talk about good dashboards. Now, again, especially now with AI, I always thinking, robot, AI tools can do your dashboard. So, you're not special. If the answer is yes, you're not doing a super special thing. Everybody that have an internet and want it can do a dashboard. But not about basic and advanced it, I want to receive what I call the wall effect. So, I say, "Miracle, what do you think about it?" If "Miracle" looks to my work and say, "That's good, I have some role." You know, I want to say, "Wow, it's about Excel, just Excel. How can you do it?" So, the wall effect is what I'm looking for. With AI, without AI, but not a normal thing. I want more than five minutes in a call. So, "Okay, okay, your dashboard, no, wow, it's Power BI? No, it's Excel. It's Excel with notes, just Excel. It's what I expect." Yeah, this is awesome. When we think about Excel, I think a little bit about data storytelling, what are the common mistakes people do with dashboards? With dashboards, in my opinion, to separate the kits for the adults when they do dashboards, I talk always about it with my students. It's a simple thing that I think that you will surprise about my answer, but okay, it's patterns. It's about a line and how can I say it? Everybody think about numbers and charts, but when you make with AI or some Power BI or things like this to make a dashboard, they are ready to align and make the sizes, the sizes. It's the word. And it's a simple thing, our group of things, our little things, that make a super different result. When you care about alignments and the same colors and not every text and size of the titles and the people just consider it when I show after and before. In the same moment, I think that I'm doing a good work and I make my changes and say after and before. Oh, yes, it's super good. And I think that is, "Ah, and I'm Brazilian." I'm Brazilian, but I don't think that it's just for Brazil, a special thing, but I talk about my Brazilian students. 99% make the same mistake languages. Okay. Mistake with words, wrong words. It's not about numbers. It's, it's, oh my god, it's text. Yes, yes. This is, this is really interesting. Did you think, I don't know, I never have used Brazilian language in an excellent mother. I think it's more Portuguese or Spain. I don't know. Look, like something. Uh, what in Brazil, the people talk about Portuguese and Spanish is the same, but if you talk one phrase complete, you cannot understand. I talk because I am, I am my grandmother, my grandfather, I'm from Bolivia, so I have the Spanish language too, but the Brazilian cannot say Spanish. Cannot speak Spanish. [speaking Spanish] In English, um, we have teach so many people, uh, that's, that's amazing. 15,000 people. That's, I don't know, that's really amazing. Are, uh, did you see that this, these people come from, uh, uh, special industry or it's, uh, no, it's, um, um, interesting thing because everybody that have, uh, seat and a computer can be my student. It's not about, uh, special industry. It's about, do you use a computer and do you use Excel? Come on. It's just it because it's about tricks and special, special ways to do the things. I'm not, I, well, could you think, that, would you imagine that I have so many friends in Excel world as, um, special teachers around the world about the language that God gives me more than one language to communicate with a lot of specialists. But, and I have certainly, I have certain about this. It's not about hard stuff. It's not about difficult. For example, do you know how can program? Uh, yeah, uh, with some program languages I'm familiar with. For example, tell me one, uh, yeah, most I use PHP and, uh, yeah, I have learned, I have learned, uh, Cobalt and a Samu Lara in this, in this, in the school. Okay. I don't know how, how, how create a VBA code without a macro. I, I'm not a cold person. So, in the beginning, they joked me a lot, the specialists. Now they come, oh, I'm sorry. Now we can be friends. But in, in that time, uh, that girl, it's not about super Excel. It's about paint. But with the time have passed, the student came, the resident came. I, it's always talking about, it's not about cold or not cold. It's about the resident. It's about more five or twenty minutes with your boss. To, to have attention, to have respect, to have a different way to do. And I, since now, I don't like VBA. I don't like cold. I try it a lot. Try that lot, but it's not my, it's not my best. Yeah. Um, I think, if I'll be a, or if I'll be as, uh, it's really interesting. Uh, and, uh, I have a lot of years not working with Excel and some, now you can do all this great stuff. Uh, but before it's more, yeah, it's more like a war and you have to use VBA for, uh, a, a form or something. Uh, so yeah, uh, yeah, that's really interesting. How, how this has changed and, uh, yeah, but I think that that change, now it's so, more interesting than that, that when, uh, we started because now, I don't have to know about codes and more than this. I just have to know what I want you to do. How ask this to, uh, AI, and the, the people don't, don't realize it. Don't think, don't, don't understand it, you know. Yeah. Uh, when we talk about co-pilot, uh, I was, uh, I was not happy with co-pilot or, uh, at the start, especially in Excel because it says, okay, you have to do this, this, this, this, this is like clippy. It's, it's more like clippy. Uh, for me, it wasn't, and I had paid with it for a little while, but yeah, uh, um, how did AI change, uh, Excel? How, how have it, or is it a new interface or is it a new way to work or is it something that's like, help you like clippy? How did you see this? I'm still constructing this relationship with co-pilot, especially. Now, I'm so best friend ever about cloud. Yeah. No, clouds is the, the best internet, uh, artificial AI, AI for us, especially for Excel, but I think that we have to give points and give credibility to co-pilot because the Microsoft is running and running to make co-pilot faster and better. And I always try to construct my things in Excel in two or three ways, different ways. So I have to make a project. I start asking to GPD. And, and after this to co-pilot and after this to cloud to, um, understand, how can I go deeper with each AI? And co-pilot is making, making good surprise for me. I use co-pilot inside Excel with, uh, edging, not just asking what I have to do in this situation. So I'm talking with co-pilots, please do it. Please do it in my way because I have a special way to create the things. Sometimes it doesn't, uh, have native things in Excel. So I'm creating my relationship with co-pilot to say, do it, but in my way, and co-pilot is surprising me with good things. I'm trying to make with Excel, but in this week, I, uh, in next week, I will start studying more deeper about the agents with co-pilot, especially I was using or tea and cloud, but now we have in co-pilot. So I was studying, I, I'm studying about it and super good thing for softies. It's running, is running. Uh, every single week, don't have these AI stuff. Uh, what's your famous problem era in Excel? Without a Yine, um, create colors, create design, not about formulas. Okay. If you give me, um, beer and Jack Johnson playlist and say go to that color in this, in this dashboard, I will be crazy and so nerd. I know about it. Yeah. Uh, for me was about the lookups, I love the lookups, uh, but I ever struggled with the colors to, to say, okay, this person of this, it's never worked for me. Uh, I, I get, I hate the Excel phonics, uh, especially on my dashboards. I, I hate it. I hate it, but no, that, okay. And I changed to, to Power BI. Uh, what did you think, about Power BI? Is it a good partner or is it more, uh, like, uh, to build that table, kill Excel will, will be standalone? When I started, I, I make a bad thing, a, a super bad thing. I'm don't, uh, I, I don't happy about it, but it's the life. I was in, um, with a hundred person and I was starting with my channel and that that was super, super, um, teachers, the, in the internet, talking about the Power BI, but Power BI don't have the same sum, the sum is different. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. It's super different. And I'm, I'm, I was talking about, I, in the Microsoft, in the microphone, I talked about the curve of knowledge, Excel versus Power BI. And we don't have to do it. It don't, doesn't make a sense because, because the, the companies don't have Excel and Power BI for everybody. They don't do it. And different steps. Now I have a, a school and I don't, I cannot be a teacher with Power BI today. So I have another, um, a partner to, to make the classes with Power BI. And I'm, I learn about Power BI every day. I don't learn it, but I have it because I don't have the, the free way that Excel gives to us. But Excel don't have a lot of things that Power BI have. So they are complementary things. But when I started, I think that is the good and bad, well, but now I have sure that they are partners for each, project, a different companies and size of companies and types of subjects and things. Well, what, what did you think about, um, a lot of people like me, use Excel more like, uh, data database. Uh, and then I use, I don't know, PowerPoll into present, present thing, the stuff or Power BI or, uh, what did you, did you think about, this Excel all, it's a small database or what is it? Uh, I, I heard from some people that I have a lot of data, a hundred, you know, 105, a hundred, um, rows is not a super big data, but for some kind of user, it is. So we cannot put in a box like Macdonald's number one and number two. They are, they have so many different things to analyze. What can, can you do? But I always thinking about, what I prefer, what I have more comfortable to use today, uncomfortable with Excel, one example that happens in the next time, do you know about MVP conference? Uh, yeah, I heard about it in right month. As you know, we have, we are in the 30, the, the, the 30 edition in this, in the next 10 months. And I was involved with things like this. I think I don't have so many problems, so I will have more and more one projects like this. I, I love, I love organized events and people and ideas. And we are talking about how can we organize the, not the data about sales, but the, the data about logistic and don't forget about one thing and the name of the, the features and things like this. And I, I, I, and I was fighting for, let's do it in Excel, please. And I have always, but, it's not about me. If I was the person that have to decide, I'm comfortable with Excel, but they created a website, a system to put it. And I'm also sad about it. But if I can decide, I always will make in Excel. I have, I have always my, my, my, my life organized in Excel. But it's all, it's about comfortable. It's not about the best. It's for me. It's the best. It's like talk about Google Sheets and Excel. For me, Excel is better in my world. But I'm creating a lot of projects for the teacher, not Excel teacher. For the companies that have curses in, in, in the internet. And they don't like Excel because Excel is starting with co-authoring. But Google, it is better for this. Yeah. Oh, so we have to, to understand our clients, our moments. But for me, Excel is better. Yeah, I think I have a, a, a, my name, a guest and he is, uh, an NPP for, uh, Excel and, uh, also, uh, I don't know how, how Google called it. But he also make a world color, but we really find it, funny guy and he say, yeah, yeah, Google in sometimes better and sometimes better dreams. Excellent. I'm more the enterprise guy and I think, okay, I never think about, uh, Google staff because it's a enterprise ready for me. But, yeah. But if your clients decide I want to do in Google, you have to, or something, right, I can, I can, I say, uh, let us stay in one cloud. I don't have fill out all this, this, other, uh, compliance stuff and so on. And you have Microsoft. So I stay in here. And I think the more things are really, really good. But, but I have really, really a question. I'm really interesting. You built, built this amazing, uh, community. And, yeah, um, half, you are a teacher, half this change your, your mind about, uh, yeah, how, how to teach, what have you learned about this amazing community? I think that my mind is changing every day, but one thing that I change it in, especially in my mind when I started to, with internet to, to make my students and my way to teach it's about, don't, how can I translate it? Um, I, I cannot, I, I don't, I cannot make you feel dunk, dunky, dunky, okay, because when I started in, in, in, night, tea world, the IT person come and say, uh, one minute, yes, it's done. It's done. And I'm feel like I don't. Yeah. Well, and when, when I'm talk with other, other teachers, since now, it's a bad thing, but it's the truth. Sometimes they, they talk in, you know, what's up groups of things like this. You guys, the my students don't know how can create blah, blah, blah. And I think it's your job. It's your job. It's not one thing to be surprised. You know, it's like when you start a language, a new language, when you start, write a bike, a gene, everything. And some teachers, since now say, oh, I cannot believe the people don't know how to create blah, blah, blah. It's absurd. It's, how can a teacher think about this? So I, I have a super power, I think. Okay. Let's talk about things. I have a super power that, and now I'm have 42, but in the next Saturday, I will, I will come back to my 50, 15, 15 years when I play it handball, you know? And I will make it again. I'm so happy about it. And it's my super power. It's my super power that, here in my mind, I have 15 and 40. And I can remember how is, how bad was, when they told me, I can't believe that you don't know how can create it. So when I am talking about a new thing, I will not teach you like miracles. It's a super hard thing. I will, miracle. I have a lot of doubts about this, but miracle. Let's, let's go together and it will work. And you will be so happy. Like I was happy my first time as go to gather, miracle. And the person said, yes, let's go together. I can feel like the first time that I create something in itself. My happiness came again, like my 15 years, you know? I think that is the difference. My happiness is a true happiness. And I talk with my students, hey guys, I will present now and you can scream because I want to scream in this moment. And the first one say, oh, that's amazing. Yes, I really feel amazing like the first time that I create it. I can't remember. I think that is the different that make comfortable the classes for every age, for every kind of user, for every different subject. And if you don't understand, if you give me your attention, I will be happy. I will not be happy until you cannot be with me. It's my, I think that is my different. Yeah, Carol, you have this positive, yeah, I don't know, aura and how bring you to your teachers, to your students. How what? How bring your positive, feeling? Could you say with another words? Yeah, you have this positive, I don't know, aura, aura, how can you bring it to your students? I think that it's about being, be me. You know, sometimes I want to do my classes in the most of time, do my classes with talking about my kids, talking about my life, using my colors. I have here, I don't know how, how can I say that this special word, I fake, I fake hair. How can I, I say, I fake hair to put in a film? Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean, oh, how is the call? You know, I'm talking about, I know, I'm fanatic, like fantasies. And I put super-colored makeup and, and I feel, you can feel like you want, you, you are tall, small, oh, you wanna, you have to be you in your job, in your class, because the power, the real power, the whole effect, it's not about your knowledge, it's how you are feeling about this, because the other people will feel, will feel it with the same, you are talking. When I make classes, especially in other language, like now, or speeches, they, they, they talk me about aura or energy, I don't know, because I wanna, you feel the energy that I'm feeling, it's the, the sucess for everybody, I think. I think. Yeah, this is, I think, yeah, this is something I also feel, it's, it's, it's a really, really cool, and if I make some long, it's okay, it's the special thing. If you talk, especially in my, in English now, it's not my first language, and if I told some wrong, okay, and in Portuguese, if I, I make a mistake, I say, oh, guys, I make a super mistake, how can you help me with this? And everybody, love it. No, it's not about be perfect, it's being union. Yeah, I think we are not English teachers, so we can do some mistakes. I think, especially the English guys, the British or US guys, they love when, when people doing some misunderstandings and so on, I think it's, that's, that's, cool of tech community, because we are not English speaking community, I think they are all, I don't know the English community, but yeah, it's cool. I love it, I love it, I love it. If you, if you look a little bit back, what motivates you to continue spreading your kids, okay? motivate you can you don't have to make more words. What motivates my kids, okay, my life? It's about my kids. My work. It's about my kids. My excited about my kids, my suitors, my wake up, everybody's about my kids. My kids, 23 and 19, okay, my little kids. Yeah, okay, then you really, you start really early, I think. Oh, all the, you're, you're, you're also become an MVP. What will you say, how important what this for your career? When I heard about MVP, I think 20 years ago, I thought, oh my God, work for free, Jim Microsoft doesn't make sense. It's what I am when I was thinking in 20 years because nobody, we don't have internet. You know, we don't have information, don't have nothing like we, we have now, but with the past with the years going past, going, show me, I, I never think about, how can I be, how can I turn me on MVP because I don't know what is, what can, what I have to change to be or stay at MVP. So when I receive a nomination, I think 10 years ago, just, I may say in car, what do you think become true MVP click here and I click it and nothing and nothing, nothing. And I was thinking about what do I make a mistake? What did wrong and one year, two year, three years, but I was creating my name. And helping people, so nothing changed. I, I was working and do all my things, helping people. And six years ago, I received the again, the nomination, but it works. And was one of more special days in my life because it's like, okay, from your super boss, Microsoft came to my door and say, yes, you are doing a good job. Go ahead. It's, it's like this. I am, I am receiving the mail. And it, it was in, in English. And I'm so, I was so nervous. I so, so, so nervous that I copied the mail that was congratulation. And I copied the content and I put in the Google translate and say, please Google. If it's real and I start to cry and my kids was with me and they was what, what is going on? And it's about money. Microsoft is contracting you. Your flow is more than this. It's more than this is, is hard to explain. And since that time, I, the truth is my friends and some super good teacher respect me more and with this title. So something's changed. The respect with the community, but first of all, it's for me. I think that like I told you, my boss saying, yes, you are doing good things because since that time since that moment, I was receiving money to do my work and helping people. But then the fee was not about money. It's about respect and respect and say you were in a good way. Go ahead. It's for special. But you have, yeah, I say you have to teach so many people. What are the one moment your students ever taught you something unexpected? I know that I can remember one that I will save it. I will, I think that was some good thing. It's weird, but good thing. I received a message in an Instagram saying hello, your teacher, I was writing for you this message to say thank you for your knowledge. I'm now in a jail. In a jail and you know that in jail in Brazil, we don't have different behaviors, but I'm I'd be fair. I know family is Brazil. I'm not a jail, but yet, okay. Weird. So here I was nothing, but I started how I don't know, but he is talking. I started seeing your videos and they give me a cell phone to see more videos to create my spreadsheets here to administrating the things here in a jail. And for these, I have super special activities that my friends don't have it just for your knowledge for free in the internet. And I'm thinking, oh my God, I never thought that it can be in a jail. And I think that is the weird story, but I have good stories about a person that come out about the depression can be this word about when you are seeking said in a dark room. So the person that say, I don't want to do nothing. I'm not good with nothing and start to see your videos. And I think, oh, I can do it. I'm a woman like you. Don't have super sturdy like you. And and stories that make a similar situation and the person have powered and go out about sick, a mental sick about the Excel. And with the things I think that is not about Excel, it's about what I was talking with you with power, give power to people. Yeah, but the jail, I also have something or a little bit waiting for because I don't have to pay my taxes. Let's see, let's see. I do, but yeah, it's okay. It's okay to go to jail. But yeah, we're running a little, I love this conversation, but be a little bit running out of time. So I have, I call the quick fine round. And I ask you a short question and you give me a short answer. So, oh my God, let's go. Excel power be I Excel best food in Brazil. Dark or light mode dark. Pivot tables of power query power query. Your favorite keyboard shortcut. Control key. Favorite Excel function. Random between most underrated Excel feature. Map a short match. Normally, I asked now coffee tea or energy drink, but coffee tea or a matter or what? Matter is love this Brazil drink with this. Don't know matter. I don't know. I'm not wrong. I'm about, I'm about energy drink always. Are you training or classroom training again, please? Online training or classroom training. Classroom training dashboard or report. Dashboard. Wind or Mac? Wing those. The best answer. A. I.S. or many or former last. Say the game please. A. S. A. I. Assistant or many or former last. I don't know what the second. So I cannot answer this. Okay. Your favorite your favorite Microsoft event. My favorite Microsoft what event event. I'm with the conference. I don't have a lot of Microsoft events here, but then with conference it's a super good event. Yeah, we play a lot on conference. Next year. One pro TV habit. Pretty habit. In a shower say thank you for every every little stuff on my life every day. When I invite you to Karaoke party. What is your favorite song? As long as you love me from back three boys. Oh, you have to sing with my girlfriend. One world will describe. One world. What is your type of cell flexibility? The current thing is so much for being here. So I have to ask you my my closing question. So I don't know. But I asked my my stunner question, but I will ask you another one. And this is how do you balance your entry notion teaching family and content creation? How did you all this in all? I don't know. It brazil have have more have more hours than in Germany, but how did you all? Hello, this. How are going to nice the change of my personal life in my work is it? No, you do you do so much you are teaching you have a family you do content creation. You answer an entrepreneur. How how how with it you put it in 24 hours? Should they and don't work a lot a lot of hours, but I focus in do my best with the hours that I have. For example, I work four or six hours in a computer, but my my vision, my life, it's look for ideas. So I'm with my kids and my looking for ideas to my kids and to my work and I work in with Excel and I'm having ideas to my kids and to my husband. So I don't like to separate the things in box. I do all together to leave my ideas and leave what I'm talking in a class and in a bar together. I think that it's more more. It's not everything to stay in two hours in the box. I'm living more free way to come to my family in the work, working the family and I take talk with ideas and Instagram with Excel ideas and change it in to make together. Yeah, Karen, thank you for the interview for your time and then we need and personally we have to take a beer or two. Thank you for for joining me today. It's this was inspiring to hear not only about your own, your own, your own, your own, as an educator and microstom, but also you are so passionate for making technology. About everyone up your work proves that Excel is much more than spatula and it's yeah a powerful tool that opens doors, build careers and helps people make that an assistant to say there. So yeah, thank you for being here and and spend nearly one hour with me. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so glad about the invite and let's do it again with two or three beers. Yes, okay, for me. We're cool. Yeah, that's that's that's that's that's that I come back. So bye, Carol. Bye bye. Thank you. ( hurts音 )